QOTD?? so which manufacturer has the least amount of total recalled vehicles across all models

"mr_gofast" (jake_berenshteyn)
05/21/2014 at 09:30 • Filed to: RECALL

so with gm being on planet RECALL for the foreseeable future, got me thinking.

Who or what manufacture of cars ( all makers who export/build in North America )

has the least amount of recalls ever and therefore has the best implied testing/design

*by that metric*

**taking into account not everyone issues recalls and issues TSBs still try to figure out who has issued the least overall**

DISCUSSION (27)

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 09:32

I'm not sure that recalls are the best way to measure reliability. Mostly because there are a lot of brands out there that don't get caught or issue full scale recalls, but end up putting out a lot of TSBs.

crowmolly > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
05/21/2014 at 09:33

Yup! That's my feelings too. You can build a car that is a well-designed POS.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > crowmolly
05/21/2014 at 09:36

A well-designed POS. Nice.

spanfucker retire bitch > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 09:36

Honda. Lexus. Acura.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 09:37

From the lack of issue we've had with all our GM cars (not one has ever had anything major repaired, just general things like brakes, tires, batteries, and oil) I'm can and will say General Motors.

I don't give two shits how many recalls the company has had, when my 20 year old van has had less issues than my friend's mom's 2-year-old Camry, it's reliable.

mr_gofast > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
05/21/2014 at 09:37

true but just based on what we know..who has the least amount of recalls/TSBs issued.

Jayhawk Jake > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 09:38

Recalls are not a good measure of reliability.

Most recalls are just realizations of an issue that didn't present itself in testing. It's honestly not surprising at all that they happen, even if GM is recalling so many cars now it's not like any car maker doesn't have them.

Hell, it's not even really a great measure of build quality. Design? Maybe, but even then if you actually look at why things get recalled it's not necessarily a design issue. Testing quality? Sure, that would be a good indicator: they didn't test the cars enough to catch the issues.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 09:39

Last I checked there has never been a recall on a Duesenburg.

Oh, and there was only one recall for the 1961 Corvair. And it was for the defroster system and issued in 1979. The 2012 Honda Civic has already had three.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 09:40

Well, Honda and Toyota have had a lot of recalls lately too. Nissan/Infiniti?

mr_gofast > spanfucker retire bitch
05/21/2014 at 09:42

according to this Honda has had over 240 recalls

http://www.auto123.com/en/used-cars/r…

mr_gofast > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/21/2014 at 09:43

that may be a particularly good model - awesome however GM has recalled 15 million cars and trucks in under 3 months..thats not a good sign

spanfucker retire bitch > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 09:43

As so many have already said - you can't use recalls as a good judge of reliability.

mr_gofast > Jayhawk Jake
05/21/2014 at 09:44

you think all these GM issues are testing problems?? i would have to disagree

EL_ULY > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 09:44

they all have issues, they all are not perfect. Most recalls are just provisional.

Get a batch of 100 ANY new car. Most will have a normal life, a few will just keep having issues, and a few will just be catastrophic pieces of poo.

The way the owner treats the vehicle is a huge factor.

After 13 years of working at cars, from a shitty gas station to high end dealerships, NO car brand sells a reliable car. Good and bad cars can come from the same batch

One dude can buy a Nissan Altima and nothing really go bad and other dude buys the same cars and it is just falling apart. Word of mouth travels quick.

Still, people today want everything to be absolutely perfect. If not, it's going up on Facebook and all that stupid shit spreading lies on something that they maybe just don't understand like...

my engine is making a loud noise

ma'am, that's your cooling fan

By then, dumbass had already spread a bunch of hate online.

Every car from any brand can turn up good or bad. I believe it's more of which one you chose out of the batch.

mr_gofast > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street.
05/21/2014 at 09:44

honda has had over 240 recalls since 2000

mr_gofast > EL_ULY
05/21/2014 at 09:46

even after all your work experience you don't think one car or another just seems to have been built better and offers up less headaches then the others?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 09:46

Toyota recalled what, 9-10 million cars a few years ago? They're still considered a reliable car company.

mr_gofast > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/21/2014 at 09:49

don'tyou feel concerned when a car company you're considering has a boatload of recalls and a 1 billion dollar fine that they paid for safety violations and recall communication issues?

GTI MkVII > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 09:54

I'm biased here, but I must say Honda. There are 5+ Hondas in our family, spanning 1997 to 2014 and in various conditions and use scenarios. None of them have ever had any issues aside from general maintenance/wear and tear items. My 97 Civic DX is an absolute trooper and refuses to even hiccup for a second, despite how hard I drive it from time to time. I'm not a fan of their latest offerings, but from a reliability standpoint, they're hard to beat.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 09:55

Not as concerned as a should be probably. I trust GM more than I should most likely, but they've always delivered a reliable product to my family. I can't distrust a company that has never let us down.

Jayhawk Jake > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 09:57

I didn't say ALL of them, did I?

My point was that it's not really a reliability issue, is it? You don't recall a car for being unreliable, you recall a car because you discover an issue that could lead to some kind of failure, typically one that may be unsafe. Some of those issues are design flaws, but I imagine that quite a few of them are issues that weren't seen until the cars hit the road and got some miles on them

For example, this recall:

1,339,355 Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia full-size crossovers from the 2009-2014 model years and Saturn Outlooks from 2009-2010 because front safety lap belt cables can fatigue and separate over time. In a crash, a separated cable could increase the risk of injury to front seat passengers.

Is it a design flaw? Absolutely. Would GM have known about this when they installed those lap belt cables? Maybe, and they probably should have, but they didn't. Where's the failure? The failure is not doing proper fatigue testing to verify the seatbelt. I don't know what's required by law or what GM or anyone else does, but this is clearly an issue they've discovered, and they likely reused the seatbelt on all the cars in the recall so now that the first batch have been out long enough to present the issue they can fix it everywhere it was used.

On the contrary this one:

1,402 Cadillac Escalades and Escalade ESVs from the 2015 model year because an insufficiently heated plastic weld that attaches the passenger side air bag to the instrument panel assembly could result in a partial deployment of the air bag in the event of a crash.

Very clearly a manfuacturing problem. Probably a quality control issue, likely discovered because someone noticed the weld failing and traced it to the plastic weld process in the factory.

My point is that just like nearly everything else in the world, you can't just assume one statement covers everything. If you actually breakdown every one of the recalls, each has their own unique issues and likely a unique set of circumstances leading to the recall. It doesn't necessarily indicate a quality issue, it doesn't necessitate a reliability issue, it doesn't mean GM engineers suck: it might mean all of those things, it might mean none of those things, but using it as a reason to say GM cars are unreliable is just incorrect.

mr_gofast > Jayhawk Jake
05/21/2014 at 10:00

i agree and ive edited my original post to reflect that...no longer a question of reliability but testing procedures.

EL_ULY > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 10:02

kind of, but many examples of headaches and wtf moments can be brought up on every model.

For example, 2011 XC60. Is it a good car? Sure. the 3.2 I-6 has less fidgety maintenance than Volvo's older motors and less common interior bit issues....

..... but, FUCK last week we had 5 come in with failed compressors. Also last year, we had one come in that had moister stains on the headliner. Turns out Volvo forgot to put the sunroof drain tubes on the sunroof tray and it leaked into the car.

Now a quick experiment.....how do you determine that info? I did not mention that those compressor replacement cars were fairly high mileage. Also on the sunroof story, i did not say that in fact it was such an isolated issue that has never happened ever again.

This is on one make and model. I was a master tech at Lexus from 06-10. Lexus was number 1 in the JD Power quality results AND it was during all the accelerator pedal crisis. Currently, I work for a Volvo, Lotus, Aston Martin, and Mercedes dealership (ex master tech for Volvo, front end specialist for all 4 brands/current parts monkey) Dude, I can tell you some stories. Both of, "daaaamn this car is so clean for it's age" and "duuuude, $250,000 car and this shit happends?"

It all ends up to the consumer. If I am ever in the market for a new car, the only place i'll ask "Is ____ a good car?" is a dealership technician. We are not car enthusiasts or sell out automotive journalists and reviewers* Dealership technicians (older ones especially) will give you direct and true answers from everyday knowledge of being around the same car and it's issues day in and day out.

*not all but very few :]

jariten1781 > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 10:03

Most of the recalls recently have been for marginal or poor design...not QA.

A QA flaw would be if GM had specified the torque on the ignition cylinder properly but the supplier provided a weaker part and GM didn't notice.

mr_gofast > EL_ULY
05/21/2014 at 10:07

so which car mfre do you feel designed their cars better?

EL_ULY > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 10:17

none :]

Lotus are pretty bad though lol. *did not hear that from me* :]

Jayhawk Jake > mr_gofast
05/21/2014 at 11:00

No. Shit happens, they had some problems but so has literally every other car manufacturer.

Besides, when you actually read what happened in the accidents that led to deaths I'm not entirely convinced it was the cars fault.